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 Post subject: Re: State of Slick
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:28 pm 
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Liam wrote:
dime wrote:
davedes wrote:
No, that JAR is out of date.

Liam and some others are working on the new site:
http://www.slick2d.org/

You will have to pull from bitbucket until the next releases is uploaded to the site.


What's wrong with it? I do a pull before building.

edit: But I agree, best it downloaded from the official slick site as they know more about it.


It doesn't seem to be building the latest version of the development branch, I can't help more than that. How have you got your build script set up to run? I could use some guidance on automating daily builds on the web server if you wouldn't mind helping me out :)

Liam


It basically does this:
hg clone https://bitbucket.org/kevglass/slick
ant -buildfile $buildfile build-slick
ant -buildfile $buildfile javadoc

build file is one in : trunk/Slick

full script, just runs from cron daily:
Code:
#!/usr/local/bin/bash

source /etc/env.rc

slickhome="/home/dimecoin/build/slick"
slickverison="trunk/Slick"
echo "SlickHome: ${slickhome}"

echo "build date: `date`" > $slickhome/builddate.txt 2>&1

echo "Grabbing source"
cd $slickhome
hg clone https://bitbucket.org/kevglass/slick


echo "Building"
buildfile="$slickhome/$slickverison/build.xml"

ant -buildfile $buildfile build-slick
ant -buildfile $buildfile javadoc

echo "Uploading"
rsync -rvvtlz --delete -e ssh "$slickhome/$slickverison/lib/slick.jar" dimecoin@powerengine2a.com:/home/dimecoin/powerengine2a.com/slick
rsync -rvvtlz --delete "$slickhome/$slickverison/javadoc/" dimecoin@powerengine2a.com:/home/dimecoin/powerengine2a.com/slick/javadoc/


rsync -rvvtlz --delete -e ssh "$slickhome/builddate.txt" dimecoin@powerengine2a.com:/home/dimecoin/powerengine2a.com/slick/


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 Post subject: Re: State of Slick
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:46 pm 
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Would you as a temporary measure be able to get that running against the development branch? Then I can directly link it at the site as a nightly while I sort my internet out.

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 Post subject: Re: State of Slick
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:19 am 
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Liam wrote:
Would you as a temporary measure be able to get that running against the development branch? Then I can directly link it at the site as a nightly while I sort my internet out.



Sure, which branch? I'm not familiar with git.


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 Post subject: Re: State of Slick
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:24 am 
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I think the branch title is

Code:
development


I'm no git wizard myself so I could be wrong but it's labeled as such everywhere so hopefully that isn't just an alias. Nightly builds would be a real benefit, I appreciate you looking into this for us :D

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:40 am
Posts: 7
For those interested in keeping up with the dev branch, but from Maven, check out https://github.com/nguillaumin/slick2d-maven

It's still a work in progress, comments and feedback welcome on the Maven thread there: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=4647&p=34533#p34533

Cheers,

Nico


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:32 am 
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So just curious if the website is still being maintained. Looks like some great tutorials started to pop up on the wiki but most are not complete. Is Slick2D still going through active development?

I'm involved in teaching a software development subject at a University and this semester we have assigned the students a task of making an educational game using Slick2D (perfect fit as they know Java and OO but likely no graphics programming experience). To get them started I am having them go through the first 2 Spiegel tutes on the wiki which I think are excellent.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:03 pm 
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Posts: 1482
Justin wrote:
Is Slick2D still going through active development?

In short: no. I accept the odd pull request, but beyond that, the library is no longer maintained, and still has lots of crippling bugs.

I would recommend LibGDX instead. It's a superior library in pretty much every aspect. But maybe it's too late for you to switch now. :P

More discussion here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6176


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:35 pm 
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Quote:
and still has lots of crippling bugs.


I disagree. If a developer want to develop a game and learn from this experience, Slick is perfect as is it

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:20 am 
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Hey, what kind of bugs does Slick have ?
Is there a list somewhere ?

Except for the weird artifact bug happening even when the image's filter is set to nearest and some minor Shapes issues, I've never met any bugs if I remember well

Using Slick for PC games still allows me to be more productive than LibGDX in my opinion, I wish it was fast and easy to port a Slick game to LibGDX though


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:58 am 
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I can see these issues: https://bitbucket.org/kevglass/slick/is ... tatus=open

Main issue for me? https://bitbucket.org/kevglass/slick/is ... turns-true
But,.. never find this bug so far

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:17 am 
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Slick has a growing list of bugs/TODOs which may never get fixed. The biggest problem with Slick is that it relies on "old school OpenGL" and doesn't port to Android/iOS/Raspberri Pi/WebGL/etc. And since it uses deprecated OpenGL APIs which may be poorly supported by drivers in the coming years, it's not a very "future proof" library.

I like Slick's simple API, and it's good for simple games. But if you ever aspire to make more complex games; maybe those that require better performance or memory management, or maybe something that can port to other platforms, you will inevitably need to use LibGDX or another framework. And IMO your time would be better spent learning that framework from the very beginning; especially since it is not much more difficult to use than Slick (in many areas, I'd argue LibGDX is easier than Slick).


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:45 am 
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@davedes: I agreen on what do you say, but slick is good for simple games.

Code:
he biggest problem with Slick is that it relies on "old school OpenGL" and doesn't port to Android/iOS/Raspberri Pi/WebGL/etc. And since it uses deprecated OpenGL APIs which may be poorly supported by drivers in the coming years, it's not a very "future proof" library.


and for this sorry but "old school OpenGL" is a good point for me. I need something to build games in spare time, with a lot of examples, slick is perfect!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:28 am 
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Don't drivers provide backward compatibility with openGL ?

If I'm developping a quite big game going on for PC only (about 20k lines of codes), should I start porting it to LibGDX now, or keep using slick and eventually port it later, when the openGL compatibility really becomes an issue ?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:35 pm 
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davedes wrote:
The biggest problem with Slick is that it relies on "old school OpenGL" and doesn't port to Android/iOS/Raspberri Pi/WebGL/etc. And since it uses deprecated OpenGL APIs which may be poorly supported by drivers in the coming years, it's not a very "future proof" library.


What sort of information do you have or can point us to that talks about possibility of poor support from drivers? When you say poor support, I'm leaning more towards to the "unusable" side.
If it's something set in stone then either:
1. Slick should be 'shut down'/completely deprecated. (To prevent people from using the library and getting into a big mess later on)
2. Slick should be made to work with the newer APIs. (Easier said than done from my reading on this forum. I don't know the details)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:48 pm 
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Ark wrote:
Don't drivers provide backward compatibility with openGL ?

If I'm developping a quite big game going on for PC only (about 20k lines of codes), should I start porting it to LibGDX now, or keep using slick and eventually port it later, when the openGL compatibility really becomes an issue ?

If your game uses 20k LOC I would not be using Slick. That's my own opinion; I think a "big game" would benefit (for aesthetic and performance reasons) from more involved graphical techniques like shaders, sprite batching, and dynamic geometry -- things that Slick doesn't really offer. Effects like per-pixel shadows (using shaders) or dynamic 2D shadow geometry (using meshes + shaders) are not easy to implement efficiently in Slick. Here is another example of what you can do with shaders and Meshes. If you want to do any of these things in Slick, you'll need to call low-level GL directly, which can be a problem since Slick doesn't guarantee any GL states and therefore might give you some nasty bugs down the road.

Then there is the question of tools. LibGDX has extremely powerful tools for texture packing, particle editing, skeletal animation, etc. It also has a powerful built-in GUI (IMHO better and easier than TWL), box2D integration, extensions for dynamic 2D shadows, strong support for map editors like Tiled and GLEED2D (Slick's Tiled API is a bit of a disaster), cross-platform unicode font support, etc.

Slick's polygon rendering and render-to-texture is somewhat buggy and not always reliable, so basically all you should be expecting to do reliably with slick is rendering images to the screen using startUse/endUse/drawEmbedded. And, honestly, if you just want a way to draw sprites to the screen, using a little library like this will be many times more performant (and more flexible for shaders etc) than Slick, since it uses batching.

Quote:
What sort of information do you have or can point us to that talks about possibility of poor support from drivers? When you say poor support, I'm leaning more towards to the "unusable" side.

These functions are marked as "deprecated" because they are planned to be removed from the API in future versions. And that's what is happening, as the technology moves forward. This means that new drivers are being built with OGL 3+ and the programmable pipeline in mind, rather than trying to optimize toward fixed-function and immediate mode rendering. To put it in perspective: Slick is targeting OpenGL version 1.1, which was released in 1997.

Things like polygon smoothing, glLineStipple, glLineWidth, etc. are already poorly supported in most drivers, and sometimes non-existent on OpenGL ES. If you want reliable line thickness and anti-aliasing in the 21st century, you need to use a geometry shader or triangulate the path manually, as explained here.

More important features like glVertex, glTranslate, etc. will probably stick around for many years on desktop. These are already removed from OpenGL ES, though, so there is no chance of distributing to embedded systems (Ouya / Android computers, iPhone, WebGL, etc).

Like I keep saying: slick is "dead" or "deprecated" or whatever you want to call it. With that said, it's still a great little library and for a long time was the best alternative to Java2D (keep in mind, Slick was developed years ago, when NeHe and immediate mode were still all the rage). If you want to continue using a somewhat buggy and no-longer-maintained library for your games, that's your own decision. But I wouldn't recommend it if you're making a big or commercial game, nor would I recommend it if you're a beginner looking for a game framework that you can use for the next N years.

Hope this clears up some of the questions.


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