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 Post subject: Is Slick dying?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:15 pm 
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Hello Community, ;)

no Bug runs since half a year. Kev seems to be busy. I've found more and more bugs within Slick2D and no one is fixing them. In my code there are so many workarounds that I almost have to say that I'm currently working on my own fork of Slick. :/

Slick is not up to date but it has several features you cannot find in other frameworks in such practical state. It would be a pity to see Slick dying! So I want to discuss with you about a more open solution for the development of Slick2D. Maybe Kev reads this and can join us here.

One developer for a framework like Slick is not enough as you can see clearly. So I suggest to open the development of Slick for its community. By this there would be a developer as long as users of Slick exist. What about GitHub, etc. where Kev remains as the main developer?

The best Java 2D Game Framework is getting outdated more and more! We should stop that!

Best regards,
Lufti


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:40 pm 
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I never saw Slick being developed by one guy...
everyone can post Bug/RFE requests and post patches, that solve these requests...

so you can report the issues you found in the Bug Report/RFE subforum and post your solutions at once, like here for example: http://slick.javaunlimited.net/viewtopic.php?t=2440

This approach works well, imho...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:45 pm 
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Could you be specific on what you see as outdated?

Apologies for the lack of bug runs, as you say I've been busy. No excuse really, I'll find some time tonight.

As to other developers, I've welcomed them from the start. There are infact currently 3 developers of Slick other than myself. So if you want to sign up and get access and are willing to stick with the style currently in the code then it's all good.

As to github, I despise git :)

Kev


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:09 pm 
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Slick seems pretty feature rich. It kind of stalls out at time, but don't know of any critical feature that is missing.

If people want, I could maintain a bit of it. That is, just take minor fixes from the forum, test and then integrate them to the main branch.

That assumes I could get write access. Also assumes I'd leave any big, game breaking or complicated fixes for Kevin :P

In terms of features:
A big one would be getting Slick on Android in some way. I think that would be a huge win for Slick.

Others from Slick blog: http://slick.cokeandcode.com/index.php? ... 815-100621
Kevin wrote:
- Add resource management (maybe incorporate some ideas from ReBirth?)
- Break up the packaging into separate modules
- Look at some higher level entity system
- Start breaking some API for some of the fixes that just haven't been possible as yet.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:11 pm 
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Was really wondering what has become outdated, rather than new features to add.

Kev


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:05 pm 
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kevglass wrote:
Was really wondering what has become outdated, rather than new features to add.

Kev


every thing that you fix in the bugs forum,
do you update the slick.zip 2?
or not?

also, the blog, the last post is from 2009!
update the slick.jar in the slick.zip, not every one know that
you still update the svn...

but, the svn that you update and fix all the bugs is this one:?
https://bob.newdawnsoftware.com/repos/s ... rc/version

if now can i have the link ^^?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:23 am 
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I think the community itself could improve Slick's progress a lot:
Right now in my opinion many users just report bugs but don't try to solve them but expect Kev to fix them.

If users would checkout Slick sources using the read-only SVN they could at least try to solve the issue on their own first and afterwards provide a patch suggestion in this forum with some test case (or modify an existing one) to prove functionality or tell the community that they found this bug but can't fix it properly.

If (that's just my suggestion) at least 2 persons agree upon a patch some developer with write access (like me for example) could apply the code fix and commit it to SVN.

What I can't do (I think) is generating a new Slick.zip and upload it or provide a new build based on the SVN trunk for download or webstart usage.

Additionally I want to mention that having write access also implies some responsibility: If you break something in Slick's SVN code you break it for everyone not just your own game :!:

I don't see Slick dying at all: it seems to be about time for the community to become more involved and stop being a "silent consumer".

@Lufti: Nice topic for a wakeup call :wink:

Just my 2 cent,
Tommy

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:22 am 
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Quote:
What I can't do (I think) is generating a new Slick.zip and upload it or provide a new build based on the SVN trunk for download or webstart usage.


How about a nightly automated build from svn? Have Slick Stable (whatever Kevin declares as good to go) and then have Slick nightly?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:18 am 
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Kev, why do you despise Git?
GitHub seems (IMHO) a good system for collaborate on a common project, and everyone can share ideas/new feature with no efforts!
I see no tecnical problems in use it and your Branch will be "Main Slick" for newbie users (and linked on website too).

@Entity: there are many different ideas and implementation, for example my Marte Engine (early start, I know it!), but also Spartan Framework (a complete Componend Based Entity System on top of slick) :D I don't think that slick is dead :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:46 am 
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Personally from a development point of view the project is pretty good, its mostly feature complete so doesn't really need anything new or major, and if it does it can be done pretty easily on top of slick due to its really modular code nature.

As good as GIT is, don't see it giving any substantial advantage over SVN.

Slick just needed a bit of maintenance, such as the LWJGL version used by default was really old (and broken on some computers) and that a few minor slick bugs needed fixing, both of which kev has addressed (or will soon).

Think the main issue here is that the community around Slick2D has really grown and needs more love and attention. An active blog/frontpage would definitely help in this regard, where stuff like new slick projects can be posted about or other related things. Maybe some members from the slick community would volunteer to do this and post there (jME has done this really well, see community hub).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:55 am 
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Ok, sorta of getting the idea here.

First, I hate GIT because of all the trouble it's caused me. The protocol doesn't traverse firewalls well and seems to be massively unstable between versions. For instance, I spent a day two days ago trying to get linphone out of GIT on my work laptop.... pain pain pain! As kappa says, not seen any advantage over SVN particularly apart from it's the "next exciting thing"

Slick.zip etc ... I update it when the bug fixes become settled after each run. After the last bug run (about 6 months ago I was reminded, sorry about that) it got updated. However, it'll get an update again soon. I've considered nightly builds in the past but my feeling is pretty much if you want the cutting edge to try out - just checkout SVN. It's not a complicated job to build. Nightly builds can still be done if anyone really is desperate, Endolf runs the build server for ardor, lwjgl etc. He'll probably do Slick if I ask him.

Outdated - ok, so I'm seeing the project isn't outdated, i.e. technology hasn't really changed alot so the code is still working like it's always done, thats what I was worried about really. As to updates to the blog etc - I'll do some but people are going to have to post suggestions for blog entries or jump on board to do some updated.


Finally, yes..

https://bob.newdawnsoftware.com/repos/s ... unk/Slick/

That is the only repository for Slick, and is the one everyone updates.

Kev


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:29 am 
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An alternative to Git is always Mercurial. It has a stable wire protocol since years and has great cross platform support. I use it for TWL.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:07 pm 
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Sorry for the late answer.

What I call "outdated" is the current build version including a very old LWJGL and bugs that aren't fixed since months. There are a lot of bugs fixed with lwjgl and Slick should contain (if it do so) the newest working version of LWJGL. Outdated might be the wrong word for this.

I've checked out the SVN version of Slick and could not even run the demos because of a lot of syntax conflicts with Java versions I tried to compile it with (take a look at its ANT build script). I wasn't able to build a slick.jar equivalent to that one you can download from Slicks website. So I cannot use the current code and have to wait (again: since months) for a new release. If there is no plan to create a new build soon, even the SVN version should work and contains a WORKING build script.

We should make clear and readable for everyone, who are the responsible persons of the code and what someone has to do to apply/suggest a feature/bugfix.

Nevertheless, Slick is great! :)
Lufti


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:58 pm 
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Lufti wrote:
What I call "outdated" is the current build version including a very old LWJGL and bugs that aren't fixed since months. There are a lot of bugs fixed with lwjgl and Slick should contain (if it do so) the newest working version of LWJGL. Outdated might be the wrong word for this.

I almost agree with you. Slick does contain an old version of LWJGL. But you could easily download the latest LWJGL version and replace the lwjgl.jar and the native libs and Slick is still working.
Quote:
I've checked out the SVN version of Slick and could not even run the demos because of a lot of syntax conflicts with Java versions I tried to compile it with (take a look at its ANT build script). I wasn't able to build a slick.jar equivalent to that one you can download from Slicks website.

What IDE and Java version are you using?
I just updated from SVN, I'm using the newest Eclipse version (Helios) and Java 6 and I can open the Eclipse project from Slick just fine.
Running Ant (using the build.xml) with target "build-slick" also worked fine for me.
Code:
Buildfile: D:\Projekte\SlickDev\Slick\build.xml
init:
   [delete] Deleting directory D:\Projekte\SlickDev\Slick\target
    [mkdir] Created dir: D:\Projekte\SlickDev\Slick\target\classes
    [mkdir] Created dir: D:\Projekte\SlickDev\Slick\target\example-classes
   [delete] Deleting directory D:\Projekte\SlickDev\Slick\dist
    [mkdir] Created dir: D:\Projekte\SlickDev\Slick\dist
   [delete] Deleting directory D:\Projekte\SlickDev\Slick\webstart
    [mkdir] Created dir: D:\Projekte\SlickDev\Slick\webstart
   [delete] Deleting directory D:\Projekte\SlickDev\Slick\lzma
    [mkdir] Created dir: D:\Projekte\SlickDev\Slick\lzma
build-slick:
[propertyfile] Updating property file: D:\Projekte\SlickDev\Slick\src\version
    [javac] Compiling 291 source files to D:\Projekte\SlickDev\Slick\target\classes
    [javac] Note: Some input files use or override a deprecated API.
    [javac] Note: Recompile with -Xlint:deprecation for details.
      [jar] Building jar: D:\Projekte\SlickDev\Slick\lib\slick.jar
      [jar] Updating jar: D:\Projekte\SlickDev\Slick\lib\slick.jar
      [jar] Updating jar: D:\Projekte\SlickDev\Slick\lib\slick.jar
     [copy] Copying 1 file to D:\Projekte\SlickDev\Slick\applet
BUILD SUCCESSFUL
Total time: 19 seconds

Quote:
We should make clear and readable for everyone, who are the responsible persons of the code and what someone has to do to apply/suggest a feature/bugfix.

There is a file named "authors.txt" in the root directory of Slick which contains the authors' names and even email addresses...
Quote:
Nevertheless, Slick is great! :)
Lufti

100% agreed :D

And as Kevin is considering nightly builds your problems should disappear "real soon (tm)" :wink:

Cheers,
Tommy

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:29 am 
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I've just checked in with Endolf, he's going to look at putting the nightly builds on the same server of lwjgl et al.

Kev


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