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Slick Forums • View topic - [IDEA] Atomic projects and JAR files

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:28 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:53 pm 
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Hi Nitram,
that's exactly what Kevin already suggested and what we developers also talked about somewhere in the development forum IIRC.

I think this is definitely the proper way to go.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:34 pm 
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Totally in for it :A

Should not be a big problem to change the build file to make this work.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:54 am 
Just wondering, would it really make a large enough difference in terms of performance? I myself don't see any benefits of this mentioned. Just wondering.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:39 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:43 am 
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Exspecially Slick-Shader deserves a own project.

Currently its just a single class... well 2 if that inner class is moved out as it should be.
But I think later on such a project should contain a set of handy shaders that can be applied to the application without the need of studing the shader language of OpenGL.

I have no problem with very small additional packages. I rather have so then a bloated slick-core.

Nitram


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:52 pm 
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Sure. As long as the source is all in the same folder, I guess it doesn't matter.

And yes I agree with a set of basic shaders and tests, so you're right about separating it.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:11 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:22 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:21 pm 
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How in the world does this effect the end-user?

End-users are the persons who use Slick to create there applications. Those persons get either the merged Slick.jar that contains all classes in exactly the same way as it is currently.
Or they have many small libraries. How ever on code side there is no difference what so ever between using the full slick.jar or all of the smaller atomic jar files.

For developers I suggest creating separated projects for each of the atomic jar files. Simply because its easier to maintain the dependencies.
For the problem with the repeating of source code. This shouldn't happen. While there are different projects, they still can have dependencies with each other. There is no problem in having every atomic jar requiring the presence of the slick-core.jar. How ever not the other way around. This will be the case for the most projects anyway. Because for example the particle systems simply can't work without the slick-core.

The bad thing is the other way around. If the core of slick requires for example the particle systems for any strange reason. Then separating the particle systems is useless as they need to be present in all projects anyway to get the core running.

And to ensure this is suggest using multiple projects. You can setup Eclipse easily to ensure such a dependency graph.

Nitram


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:02 pm 
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One project is better. With better I mean better for us. Imho, that all :D

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:37 pm 
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How so?

I understand that the layout must not change for all those who use the compiled library. That is the case in both approaches.

I do not understand why a single project is better for developing. Could you please tell me why?

Nitram


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:14 pm 
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Crossdepencies will wipe all over you and you have trouble merging different projects to one. It's way easier to use one project (hell we even have already a build.xml, we just copy paste what we need xD Why make the effort to seperate the projects so I have 10 projects in my workspace... Sorry I don't see any good things coming from it). I tend to don't invent the wheel a new just because the technology for it :D

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:44 am 
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Okay I am pretty sure we are talking about entirely different things here.

Lets take as example: slick-core and slick-tiled

slick-core works in the packages org.newdawn.slick[.*]
slick-tiled works in the package org.newdawn.slick.tiled[.*]

Both different projects. slick-core does not require slick-tiled at all. How ever slick-tiled required slick-core to work and is set up to depend on slick-core so it uses the sources of slick-core as well (To avoid writing duplicated code and the requirement to merge anything). If someone ever has the smart idea to use anything from slick-tiled inside slick-core Eclipse will throw error messages as it should be. So corrupting the dependencies basically can't happen if you don't change the project settings. Real cross-dependencies like slick-core requiring slick-tiled and slick-tiled requiring slick-core must not happen anyway. At it screws the entire idea of having separated jars. Components that require each have to be merged into a single project anyway.

And merging the different projects like slick-core and slick-tiled into the slick.jar is way easier then splitting one compiled project into many separated ones as one simple ant command does the job. For splitting you need to use include and exclude filters to get this done. That works for projects that contains just a single package but once you get projects with multiple packages (slick-core) it will get ugly to maintain.

So all in all: I don't get your advantages. :wink:

Nitram


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:43 am 
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I don't get your advantages too. It's all too... well useless to the user. It's just mor work for us. And I don't see where you could have a problem in copying stuff from the build.xml and change it as we need for the small jars.

Don't get me wrong but you throw a lot of Software Engineering stuff at us (Maven, Mutliple Backend stuff, Splitting a working project into 10 or so, enhance the risk to miss dependencies, mess with people who just want to pull the newiest branch, etc). I can see there is some benefit but you seem to want to table flip all so it matches your style of working. I just don't get why you conentrate so much in giving us MAYBE the chance to work better with the project (I never used any of these neither does any company I worked with) but imho it's more important to make the library itself better. Not giving us more work which the end user doesn't even see... (meaning what davedes does mostly)

I can do a simple question for that: Does anyone have a problem with the project? Does anyone feel the urge to have like 10 projects and skip through them?

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